Tha MonkeyClan of the Angry Monkey (FFXI)
Tired - SATA Editorial
Submitted by raprot on Sat, 04/16/2005 - 11:39.

I set myself out in Jeuno again this evening (as I do every night). Last night I had a wonderful party in W. Altepa and we chained beetles through 2 levels for everyone. I was hoping to get the same, but tonight I received yet another invite for Crawler's Nest. Everyone seems to love going to the Secret Aparatus room. I gave in because I had partied with this PT's leader previously.

After I arrived I settled into the PT and was allotted first SATA. I'm proud of my armor, abilities, and how much I hit for. I've seen THF/NINs attack for a little more than me, but when you monitor our hits consistently, I hit for more more often. You question this because they have two weapons, but every THF/NIN I have seen wears gear 10 levels below them and have little ACC. So they miss every other hit, nulling out a second weapon.

First thing that occurs when I arrive is the THF/NIN checks me out. He then says in the Party channel: "Exactly what are you thinking with all of the +ATT gear? You know none of that helps SATA." I stated that you can either emphasize your NIN abilities with EVA, AGI, and DEF or you can push your DD abilities with ATT, STR, and DEX. He basically laughs at me, tells me I have no clue what I'm doing, and berates me for the rest of the evening.

Not only this, but as I'm attempting to get behind the tank for our second mob of the night, he runs to beat me to the position. He wins, of course, and I have no where to go. I can't get behind him, because after he goes the mob will turn. The leader proceeds to yell at me because I'm late with the SATA. I tell him that the other THF had taken my place and I was unable to do my job. The other THF bursts out with, "Can I do the first SATA, my attacks are much higher anyway." And the leader quickly cans my ass and gives me the sloppy seconds SATA. I grind my teeth and continue...ignoring the fact that my SATA attacks are actually peeking just above his regularly.

All through the evening he says things like, "What's your DEX and boosts?", "You should be wearing this gear instead.", and finally resorted to /tells saying "Do you mind if I give you some friendly advice?" By the end of the night I promptly blisted this fucker and never once responded to him.

So, after all of this fun I ran to Jeuno and waited until 4:30am to switch over to Perite to harvest my trees. After three weeks of watching them, feeding them at 4am, and making sure they survived I got my final harvest: 6 stacks of Cinnamon.

Yeah, so no ores to speak of, it's 4am, I've had a really bad freaking night partying....this game is starting to wear on me. I may need another two week break.

Update: So this THF got under my skin and I decided to look into his insults. From what I've read, assuming everyone is correct, SATA does not ride on ATT or STR. Sneak Attack's abilities are gauged/increased by your DEX. Trick Attack's abilities rest with your AGI.

If you've ever used SATA before you've noticed that SA by itself only does half the attack damage of a full SATA. So, even if you have to stand behind a non-tank class (DRK, MNK, DRG, etc) to pull off your SATA, it's worth it. If you do so, though, make sure that the tank has been given time to properly set Hate or wait until the mob is at half life.

Therefore it's entirely important to keep your DEX and AGI stats high with your THF. What most THF's don't notice, though, is that for 3/4ths of your fight "you're not SATAing"! SATA is an incredibly important and helpful attack. I do roughly 350 damage with it every time, and just over 400 if I add Viper Bite. My SATA is nowhere near feeble. But if you focus solely on SATA gear, you stand around the rest of the fight missing your attacks or hitting for less than 10 each swipe.

I consistently hit for no less than 20 on each swipe, miss every fifth swipe, and toss out critical hits (40+) roughly every five swipes. Mind you that daggers get at least 20 swipes in before the next SATA is ready.

My conclusion is that DEX and AGI are incredibly important to make your SATAs stick out, but don't forget that you can be just as useful inbetween SATAs. EVA with THF is always imperitave, though. You're relied upon to be a pinch puller and as such you need to always be prepared. I agree that NIN comes in really handy here with Utsusemi. As you move into your 60s mobs will hit for a lot more and you can't afford to die on a pull. Shadows can really come in handy here. This does 'not' mean that THF is forced to sub NIN. I plan to prove that as I move into my 60s, a THF/WAR can be incredibly useful.

As a last note: everyone also forget that at THF lvl 50, WAR obtains the passive ability of Double Attack. Not only this, but when THF reaches 55 they get their passive Triple Attack. Whether or not they can stack, I await to see. My experience with WAR is that these kick in roughly 2-3 times per fight. These abilities can only be harnessed if you increase STR, ATT, and ACC! Otherwise they're a complete waste.

The most important thing to remember is that THF/WAR and THF/NIN are two different animals. They have different abilities, different needs, and play different roles in good PTs. Research your world before you judge it.

Once I reach level 55 I'm hoping to return to you with further knowledge on this subject matter. Jobs fall into biased hands every day! It's never bad to mix things up and try new avenues! Prove or disprove that jobs like THF/SAM are worthwhile. Just please keep your wits about you and don't become a buttersheep while you're experimenting.


Great post!

Incredible post, RapRot/Trix! Please don't leave for a couple weeks because of something an idiot says to you. In fact, I would post the URL to this posting ( is the URL to your entry here) in your bazaar comments and leave it there. Perhaps preface it with "SATA, DEX, AGI, STR, Attack Information" or "THF/WAR and THF/NIN are two different animals" or something. That way, if anyone starts arguing just tell them to check this URL and you wont discuss it further because you are there to fight the enemy and not debate with teammates.

I agree that THF/NIN and THF/WAR are two very different beasts. Personally, I have complained a lot in the past about THFs because so many I have met are such princesses. They spend a good 30 levels before their job gets an incredible kick ass trait and they get these massive chips on their shoulders. They then think they somehow know better than everyone else in the party and tend to berate people. I know you're not one RapRot, but it sure sounds like this THF/NIN was one.

Personally, I tend to avoid bad THFs any more, and I have been very fortunate to play with some very very very good ones lately that are a credit to THFs in general. I have played with THF/NINs who kick ass because they can pull non-stop with little healing. I have played with THF/WARs who stack SATA with some freaking awe-inspiring weapon-skills (yes, DEX and AGI help with SATA, but when you combine SATA with a weapon-skill you need STR and ATT ;-) I have also been in mixed parties with both THF/NIN and THF/WAR (they bounced hate between a WAR/MNK and me, a WAR/NIN and we hardly ever had to provoke :-)

Long story short. Don't let them get to you. Ignore them, blist them, and move on. It's been a while since I encountered a MNK who tried to berate me (told me that I should be using Fruit Punches because they had no delay on them, and that I was hitting too slowly... WTF? He did hit twice as much as I did, but was only doing 5% or so of my damage) but I know how you feel. Prove them wrong by action and not word. Let them see how amazing your THF/WAR can be.

As far as the ores are concerned... sorry about that. How many were you growing? Like I've said before, I generally only get around 50% success-rate with them... which, when you're growing 4-6 means you get considerable profit, but when you're growing 1-2 means you are more likely to get bupkiss. Have you considered just going the Tree Saplings route instead? Maybe ores are too big of a first step for you. I certainly didn't have any success on my first ores... I had to monkey around with saplings before I started getting things working. In fact, now I don't even buy my Tree Saplings to grow into ores. I have a production going from Tree Cutting->Tree Sapling->Ore. Sure, you can argue that takes a very long time (nearly 2 months per ore), but considering I have them going constantly across 1.5 mules and 15 pots it means I pretty much get a new Ore every week on average. So if Ores are proving too trying, screw them. Just grow the saplings.

You may also want to focus a bit on leveling your Clothcraft. Right now, with my Cooking at 60, I have several avenues for pulling decent income from it. Between Mithkabobs, Dhalmel Steaks, Pies and Drinks I could earn a reasonable income should my Ores or jugs ever dry up (and the jugs are doing really lousy lately due to certain undercutters in this very clan who shall remain nameless ;-)

At any rate. Don't give up. We have faith in you :-)

Vis Maior's Journeys


Just wanted to add something on THF/SAM. THF/SAM really doesn't look like it adds anything until THF is 60... and even then I personally wouldn't think it adds enough.

At 30, SAM gets Mediate, which radically increases your TP gain. It turns you into a WS-spamming machine. That being said, it really doesn't earn you much more TP/click than many other jobs will earn naturally. For example, as a MNK I tend to keep up with the SAMs in my party for TP gain. Also, Dual Wielding Axes as a WAR/NIN I tend to earn just as much TP as the SAMs.

So I would personally bet a THF/NIN at 60 dual wielding knives would earn TP about as fast as a single wielding THF/SAM. Since the THF/SAM wouldn't get any additional STR (they would get more DEX) it probably wouldn't be worth it over the Triple Attack you get from THF/WAR.

Just MHO.

Vis Maior's Journeys

Too Many Noobs

I had a very similar experience recently as well. I got to the party and the leader checks me, then asks why don't I have such-and-such gear. Well, the fact is I could have payed 10X as much for some gear that gave a minor status boost than the gear I had on, but at the expense of loosing some defense. And since I ordinarily play as a war tank, I thought the gear I had on was a better choice. Well, I didn't think it was worth argueing about, so I ignored him. Next we start fighting and he critcises my choice of food. Mind you, the food I was eating was not the most expensive in the game, nor the least for that matter. But it was a useful food for improving accuracy. Again I ignored him. During a period of down time one of these ignoramuses decides to show off by trying to solo an Antican. I saw him fighting the ant alone and tried to help him, but he gets pissed off at me and tells me to stop. So I stop helping and the fool dies. As if all this weren't enough, the leader-puller goes off and pulls a beetle when we are down to 5 players and the whm has no mp at all. Deaths result and I quit the party at that point. Moral of the story? Whenever some arrogant moron starts telling you what to do? Quit the party immediately and tell him: "If I want any shit out of you, I'll squeeze your head." LOL


I agree with the quitting the party thing, but I tend to watch my language with anyone but friends. Swearing is *technically* against the TOS, and you could actually get kicked or banned for it.

I actually have found it best to just say something like "{Thank you.} {Good Luck.}" in party and then quit. That way, they do know I'm pissed off at them, but since I was so pleasant about it, what the hell can they do? :-)

I know, I know... that's some advice coming from a hot-head like me... But, like I said... I only swear at my friends.. If I swear and explode at you, you know you must be a good friend... It's when I'm super-nice to you and insult you in subtle ways that you know I really dislike you. :-D

Vis Maior's Journeys


That was interesting! I say good job to you, the are many ways to do a job, just cause one way is real popular doesn't mean it is the only way. I am glad you stick to what you want and not what others want,(who knows in the end you may be the one with the last laugh). The point is it is supposed to be fun and different, not everybody levels the same job or in the same way. I really dont like those people that try to tell you how you are supposed to do it. Sure there way probably works great, but that is there way not yours, and you never know if your way could be as good or maybe in some cases better until you try. Stick to your gun and have fun, don't let others get you down.

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