Tha MonkeyClan of the Angry Monkey (FFXI)
On the importance of keeping your subjob leveled
Submitted by ravenclaw on Mon, 04/04/2005 - 19:12.

There was quite a bit of discussion this last weekend both when I was around and when I was not on whether or not it is important to keep your subjob leveled up. Some people seemed to think that it isn't as important to keep your subjob up and that it is completely and totally fine to let it slide by a few levels. I found a great post on this subject here which I am going to reproduce below. This post really does explain why it is important to have a fully leveled subjob.

The problem is that an underleveled sub IS NOT a handicap. Support Jobs only enhance the main class, not detract so any level of support job you have is a benefit. Having a fully leveled support job doesn't mean that player is good at doing his job or even as a person. You severely limit yourself in options and horizones the mindset that having to have a fully leveled sub (and to a lesser extent, odd-job combinations but that's a whole different thing) is a must for every single player. I do agree that having your sub leveled for milestone levels is important but having 2 or 3 levels inbetween those (say between a level 26-29 for WAR sub) milestone levels won't matter.

FYI, I went to 50 with a level 12 WAR sub myself and I leveled much faster than most of the NA population because I had a good rep =b.

ANY subjob is technically a bonus, so why wouldn't you want the best bonus you could possibly have? The following is a comparison of two Hume PLDs:

HP: 820______________________HP: 879
MP: 212______________________MP: 212
STR: 51______________________STR: 54
DEX: 41______________________DEX: 43
VIT: 52______________________VIT: 54
AGI: 35______________________AGI: 37
INT: 33______________________INT: 35
MND: 45______________________MND: 47
CHR: 46______________________CHR: 48

Essentially, Shouta, if you have leveled your WAR sub 13 more levels, your sub would have given you the following stat "bonuses":

HP +59
STR +3
DEX +2
VIT +2
AGI +2
INT +2
MND +2
CHR +2

People spend disgusting amounts of gil on equipment for smaller stat boosts than the ones you see here. Why wouldn't you take out the time to level your sub for these, rather than pay a LOT of money for the stats. Or, better yet, why wouldn't you do BOTH?

Further, a few levels in a sub DOES make a difference, so leveling only to milestone levels STILL lacks some benefits. For example, you are a PLD60/WAR25 according to your profile. While the stat calculator is not accurate to level 60, it is pretty good before that. Here are the "stat boosts" you would gain by leveling your WAR sub to 29, instead of 25, a mere 4 levels:

HP +17
STR +1
DEX +1
VIT +1
AGI +1

If there was a piece of equipment out there that offered these stats and magically took up no equipment slots, do you have any idea how much it would cost? Millions. Level 75s spend 10K experience points raising ONE attribute ONE point. Lacking 3 or 4 levels in a subjob is tantamount to being a level lower in your main compared to someone who has a fully leveled sub.

And by the way, one of the reasons you leveled faster than most of the NA population was because while you were leveling your main job non-stop, most of them were taking a break from it, leveling their subs.

And don't think mages can get away with this, either. Arguably, a mage with an underleveled sub is even worse. Greedy, by not leveling your SMN sub to 15 and staying at WHM30/SMN09, here are the "stat boosts" you are lacking by not having a /SMN15

HP +11
MP +28
DEX +1
AGI +1
INT +2
MND +2
CHR +2

Six extra levels of /SMN is like having an Astral Ring, Saintly Ring, and Eremite's Ring ingrained into your character's base stats. In fact, a /RDM15 will give you 6 MORE MP than a /SMN09!!!

Obviously, subjobs are only a bonus. However, when the standard is having a fully leveled sub, and your is more than 1 or 2 levels behind, then compared to the general playing population, your character IS gimped.


Hopefully that should give everyone a general idea as to how important a leveled sub is for stats, let alone the invaluable Job Traits and Abilities.

Now, let's say this person you know gets to 22 WAR. Ask him if he would like to have +12HP and +1 to EVERY stat without even having to buy a new piece of armor. Then tell him that this is what he will get if he levels THF to 11 (instead of 7), along with the added bonus of Evasion Bonus. Because a difference of 4 subjob levels at this stage of the game means just that, a difference of HP, MP, and at least 1 of every stat along with the traits.


Apparently im the underdog here but I'll say what I want to say:

Just because a person does not have a fully leveld sub job does not make that person any less of a competant player. Im very open with my parties, and if somoene with 20WHM/7BLM wants to party? So be it. As long as they can heal, thats fine. A tank who is a 22WAR/8MNK, so be it. As long as they are doing their job and soaking up hate and damage. Will they perform as well as those with higher subs? Probably not. Will they still get the job done? Most likely.

Having the mindset of wanting a perfect party every time is just as bad of as having a mindset of having the best equipment for your level all the time: It just doesnt happen. Your not always going to be able to afford the best thing for your level. Likewise, your not always going to get the perfect person for the position you need.


Your in Kazham leveling and you need a healer. You bring up the search menu and you have the following choices:


Which are you gonna pick? Now obviously you will want the best player if they show up like so:


Now, if the fully subed WHM isnt there, wont the other 27 WHM work fine as well? Yes. Will it be as optimum as the full sub? Probably not. Should you, heaven forbid, have some shread of patience in the game? Uhhh, yea.

So stop making a big deal out of it, and play the dang game. Quit disassembleing every mechanic in the game and just enjoy it. Sub jobs are nothing more than boosts. Getting a sub job involves a quest. Some people dont like doing quests.

If you could get the ultimate weapon for your job at your level, but you have to do a 5+ hour quest. Would you? Some would. Others wouldnt. Its the same thing with sub jobs.

Will some people start over with another job just to get some boosts to their main? Sure, most will. But there are some that wont simply because they dont want to have to repeat the same leveling process they just got out of (Gustaberg>Dunes>Quifm>Kazham) for those of you from Bastok.

It all boils down to a matter of opinion and I dont think its right to make the game experience less for someone who just takes the option of not leveling a sub job or not doing the sub-job quest at all.

The sub job quest was made to be OPTIONAL. If it wasnt optional, you would automatically be able to sub another job once you hit 18. This means that you can successfully play the game without a sub job. Is it the best choice? No. Is it possible? Yes.

The attitude of current players in the game (like Maior) are the cause of why most noobs are pressured into geting a subjob. They feel that if they want to be in a party, a fully leveld subjob is MANDATORY, which it isnt. It boils me up to see someone who is so close to a milestone level (say 200 exp to 30) but they cant find a party because no one will take them with an underleveld sub.

Gimped? NO. The attitude of the current players is gimped. Especially if they think that a subjob or fully leveled subjob is a necessity of the game.

Confessions of a n00b

I admit it. For a couple hours last Saturday, Thersites played with a GIMPED subjob. He even make light of the fact, and was congratulated by other LS members who were online at the time, lol. Thirsty was leveling his Ranger. When he dinged 52, much to his horror, his underleveled war25 sub was revealed for the whole world to see. But if you weren't on last weekend, you missed out on the fun, because Thersites is now in Kazham raising his sub. Funny thing was, the first party he got had half the players with grossy underleveled subs, lol. Things like whm25/blm08. In fact one new player who joined apologized for his sub being one level under. Then everyone starts laughing because his was better than most of theirs, lol.

So, you may be asking, "What's your point Thirsty?" Well I don't really have a point, except that sometimes, if you dont take the game too seriously, we can have a good laugh at ourselves. Aside from that, yes it is better to have a fully leveled sub. No doubt about it...

Taking the game seriously

Okay, here's my take on the whole "taking the game too seriously" argument.

I play to have fun... just like everyone else. However, I am someone who enjoys it when a party clicks and efficiently rips through the mobs. I enjoy the strategy of analyzing what we are fighting and coming up with a good skillchain. I enjoy figuring out how we are going to fight what we're fighting. I enjoy the preparation and the execution of well laid plans.

If someone is in my party with an underleveled sub they are going to make the experience not very enjoyable. Granted 1 or 2 levels may not be a big deal, but as you can see from ravenclaw's quote, many more levels can make a huge difference.

It could be that they are a tank with an underleveled sub that is taking more damage than another tank would, and thus requiring more cures. Something like that will slow the party down as we have to wait longer for the healer's MP to regenerate.

It could be they are a nuker with an underleveled sub that cannot cast as many spells due to their lower MP, or make their spells do more damage due to their lower INT. Again, this slows the party down because we have to take enemies a bit weaker and probably rest more between battles.

I want to enjoy this game as well, and yet I cannot enjoy it when I spend several hours in a party with no strategy and people who do not know how to play their jobs. I study the jobs that I play so that I can be the best "*insert job here*" as I can be. If I am in parties with people who aren't putting in any effort into their job, it drags down my enjoyment.

Am I taking the game too seriously? No, I don't think so. Are people with underleveled subs not taking the game seriously enough? Perhaps.

The great thing about this game is that its depth actually allows for players who like to take it as serious as I do, and for people who don't.

That being said, I'd like to quote Aden (creator of the awesome Renkei chart):

I had a "discussion" like this once with someone about their subjob, but I didn't tell them it was their subjob. The person in question was a WAR23/MNK7 at the time, and he was really, REALLY dragging our party down. He always needed Cures and he was hitting like a sissy. I was done with the party anyhow, so I decided to say this in party chat.

Me: You know there is a quest you can do that will permanently increase your stats.

Newb: really?

Me: Yep. Your base stats go up just from doing in.

Newb: wow cool

Me: And you get new abilities, like Job Abilities and Traits.

Newb: awesome, u have to b high lvl?

Me: Nope, you can do it now. You'll also get more HP.

Newb: cool how do i do it?

Me: Go back to your Mog House, switch to MNK, and level it the f*ck up!

The entire party cheered for me.

Vis Maior's Journeys


That was funny

"Are you the one just for me?"

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